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06-01-2024, 04:32 AM
ty_taurus
What is your RPG playstyle?
I wanted to start a discussion about what you feel your preferred playstyle is when playing RPGs and how that fits into FFXIV. Something I've learned over my years of gaming is there are certain things I always gravitate toward and try to achieve in games, and I figure that's something all of us can relate to.
On my part, I'm the kind of person that likes to take supportive characters or classes and augment them to be more aggressive. I like being able to not only provide healing, support, and utility to my team (be they other players or NPCs) while also being able to go on the offensive when needed. During my days of playing League of Legends, for example, I'd always build more aggressive items onto characters like Bard, Nami, or Lulu.
I'm also a big fan of debuff style support when it actually works and is effective. In Final Fantasy, while Vanille isn't my favorite character in the series, I do resonate very strongly with her set of roles: Ravager is a DPS that builds the stagger meter, Medic heals the party, and Saboteur enfeebles enemies with poison and stat reductions.
In Honkai Star Rail, my main team consists of all support characters that I have built to do damage: two harmony (buff supports), one nihility (debuff support), and one preservation (barrier sustain). It's not the most meta team, but everyone is well-built, and when I have everyone's support effects active, my characters that usually aren't meant to deal a lot of damage are able to deal quite a lot of damage despite none of them being DPS.
Naturally, when I started playing FFXIV, Scholar was exactly my playstyle, but that playstyle has since been erased from FFXIV, so I don't really have a job. I was hoping Sage would pick up the mantle of being that type of offensive healer/support, but it failed.
06-01-2024, 04:45 AM
LilimoLimomo
I've been thinking for awhile that the current FF14 is less of an "RPG" and more of a "mid-paced action game with mild RPG elements". I in no way want to put words in your mouth, but I personally wonder if that might explain why you're not finding your desired RPG playstyle here?
06-01-2024, 04:46 AM
Eraden
Mao only ever played MMOs. In each MMO Mao played Mao was always big on DPS with one exception....In Eves Online Mao flew Amarr Curse Cruiser and Mao job in combats was to use Nosferatu to suck enemy ships dry of energy so thems couldn't fight backs. Then Mao Corp-mates would come in and shoot enemy ships.
06-01-2024, 04:58 AM
ty_taurus
I mean, FFXIV is an MMORPG... "RPG" is literally in the genre name. But regardless, if the issue of me not finding my playstyle in FFXIV is because of the genre, then wouldn't my issue be that there would never have been a job that fit my style ever in FFXIV? Scholar very much did for the first 6 years of the game's lifespan.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
I've been thinking for awhile that the current FF14 is less of an "RPG" and more of a "mid-paced action game with mild RPG elements". I in no way want to put words in your mouth, but I personally wonder if that might explain why you're not finding your desired RPG playstyle here?
06-01-2024, 04:59 AM
OdinelStarrei
First things I look for in RPGs with player choice in this manner is, "Which class has the greatsword?" and "Which class has the runic magic?" By runic, I'm more referring to magics that are based more on sigils, symmetric or intricate patterns, or, if the world building can support it, a pseudo-mathematical approach to spell casting or calling directly from the powers of established deities or communing. This is in contrast to something like incantations or summoning directly, but I do find those to be enjoyable as well. Bonus points if it's edgy as darker/hexing magics are usually more interesting to me in the settings they are portrayed in, but I've played many a two-handed oathsworn paladin.
In terms of gameplay, the closer something resembles Nero from DMC, the more I'll probably like it. By that, I mean a relatively simplistic kit on the surface for accessibility, but elements of active resource management, alterations/enhancements of standard attack or spell chains based on certain conditions, and most importantly, high APM, and skill expression in the form of reactivity, and familiarity with niche, but interesting mechanics. The more I can "merge" with the controls, the execution of a perfectly set up offensive burst, before switching gears into a defensive pivot upon retaliation, the more satisfied I'm going to feel. Loops back into why I shy away from physical shields and prefer parrying or dodging or other ways of entirely nullifying damage with a big 0, as that feeling of "This is my chance. The damage is negated, and now the advantage is mine to exploit." is also satisfying.
06-01-2024, 05:09 AM
OgruMogru
I always pick Mage classes. I'm only really interested in BLM in ff14, but I'm excited to try PCT. In GW1 I preferred Ritualist which can be built offensively or support focused and requires planned positioning and time to set up walls of ghosts, also has mechanics that require you to hold items to gain effects and enchant self and allies weapons. In League [when I played] I played Orianna [best girl - ball positioning mechanic is still one of the most unique and gratifying gameplay mechanics to me] Lulu [hyper offensive, and I loved sniping people with extended range on glitterlance. I really loved the odd aiming on the 2 projectiles] and Aurelion Sol before they completely ruined him - finding out his rework was pushed through by someone who hated his gameplay and forced a change that only that SINGLE CHUD wanted feels very similar to how I imagine healers felt when their jobs got gutted out from underneath them!
06-01-2024, 05:11 AM
Boblawblah
Good thread! I like these types of topics.
RPG is such a broad term that I have different preferences depending on the type of RPG i'm playing and what genre it's crossed with.
For 'rpgs' like League of Legends, I generally used to play simple characters like Rammus/Udyr/Nasus (sometimes Kha'zix) though. Usually characters that do well on their own. That said, I love supporting my team mates and protecting/helping them (hence the junglers)
For D&D style of crpgs, I'm almost always a paladin type character, that can support but also bring the heat when needed. Morally good characters appeal to me in crpgs.
Action RPGs like Diablo, I love pet/summoner classes, lots of fun having a little army killing things for me.
mmos make me anxious, so I usually stick to DPS classes, hence Summoner and now Reaper being my two highest levelled jobs currently.
06-01-2024, 05:13 AM
TaleraRistain
All over the place I think. Don't really have a style in single player JPRGs. I like to try it all.
In past MMOs I was an enchanter, a ranger, a paladin/warlock, and many other support or tank roles. It's XIV that has been the outlier for me where I was mostly a healer main, specifically WHM and played BRD for dps. I only leveled my tanks through FATEs and such but never played them. EW I went back to my tanking roots and became GNB/SGE. And I still dabble in those others though my main dps is now RPR with DNC and RDM for the other roles.
I think this has made me able to adjust to things as they change in XIV. If I don't feel this class, I can try this one on the same character. And I find a new love.
06-01-2024, 05:51 AM
Roda
I typically see myself as an explorer type. I like to discover new things, places, interactions, and silly little tricks. Completing a task efficiently is fine and all, but turning it into a trickshot is more fun :)
For combat I prefer control/manipulation over any other role, though when that's not available I'll opt for damage over things like tanking and healing, but I am at my best when I have direct control over how a battlefield behaves and am allowed to set up complex systems on the fly.
I prefer to play casters/exclusive magic users over all other class archetypes, though my favorite flavors are unassuming magic users who use guile and wit over raw primal power. Trickster-types! (Bonus points if they're using vague non-elemental sparkle magics instead of throwing another fireball at a problem)My go-to D&D class is Bard for its stellar crowd control and supportive magics and its ability to do some phenomenal RP ass-pulls.
Sadly I do often have to go to other games to scratch my archetypal itches since most content here is very straight forward "hold W until you hit a monster, then do a dance while maintaining your damage rotation then repeat" within non-interactive hallways or flat platforms. :x
My mains in other MMOs
GW2: Mesmer
Wildstar: Esper
WoW: Mage (though i've been dabbling in Evoker for DF because dragons are cool)
Warframe: (slow)Nova, Wisp, Titania06-01-2024, 06:06 AM
Jeeqbit
I usually try to experience the story and feel the story in the fullest way possible, and use other subtle aspects of the game like sidequests, walking and interactions to add to the character and feel of the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
I wanted to start a discussion about what you feel your preferred playstyle is when playing RPGs and how that fits into FFXIV.
So how it fits into this game is that I enjoyed ARR unlike a lot of people. I just make the most of things.
I especially liked the emotion aspect of it because that appeals to me.
Having only 1 or 2 attack buttons is pretty irrelevant to me, as long as I can attack, so this not being an issue for me in games made it not an issue like it is for others.
My logic toward other games doesn't entirely apply to this, because I was playing it due to it being an MMORPG specifically as well for social reasons.
In terms of actual achievement hunting like mount collecting, I never really cared about it until I saw others around me doing it, so it was a way of participating.Quote:
Something I've learned over my years of gaming is there are certain things I always gravitate toward and try to achieve in games
The game is also just not very fulfilling without achievement hunting ie. you do it once and the entire patch is done for the next 4+ months. But by achievement hunting it makes it more like other games in this genre that draw out the content with grinds.
I like to play what would logically make me able to survive in a roleplaying context. For example, I saw Bard and thought "the enemies would just run up to melee range and I would be defenseless". So I looked at Paladin, saw the offensive sword and the defensive shield, and thought it was perfect. The benefit was also bosses actually facing you since they just stood still earlier in the game.Quote:
On my part, I'm the kind of person that likes to take supportive characters or classes and augment them to be more aggressive.
I do want to augment a support character to be more aggressive though. That was always my goal on Paladin, even in Heavensward, where its damage was atrocious compared to the other tanks. I felt I was satisfied if I could attack an enemy on my own and feel like I'm making progress. I started to feel this was the case when stacking Strength, especially into Stormblood, and given how they've been simplifying the game, tank damage continues to feel good - we tanks can wreck mob packs in dungeons in a way we never could in the past with our little 100 potency AoE (or no AoE for PLD :rolleyes:).
What made SCH my favorite healer was when I discovered I could use it to heal without casting, in a way that felt superior to WHM at the time, who spread it across multiple OGCDs one of which had a long cooldown. I also literally did not need to cast a heal - not even a regen like I was doing on WHM.Quote:
Naturally, when I started playing FFXIV, Scholar was exactly my playstyle
06-01-2024, 07:01 AM
Rekh
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
I've been thinking for awhile that the current FF14 is less of an "RPG" and more of a "mid-paced action game with mild RPG elements". I in no way want to put words in your mouth, but I personally wonder if that might explain why you're not finding your desired RPG playstyle here?
Funny thing is Elden Ring's more of an rpg than FFXIV is; XIV now plays itself for the most part. Customization of stats? Nah, that's not allowed in my "perfectly balanced FFXIV, it makes the job for devs easier."
06-01-2024, 07:04 AM
TheMightyMollusk
My consequence-free power fantasy is being able to actually help people and make things better. Paragon for life.
06-01-2024, 07:37 AM
Cynric
This looks like fun.
Ever since I was a kid I always gravitated towards characters that attacked/moved fast, this led to me playing lots of Thieves, Rogues, and Assassins, which in turn led me into playing lots of characters that dual wield. I also really liked swords a lot so if I had an option I'd usually pick a Sword as my weapon. Ironically even though I liked attacking fast and the rogue archetype, I wasn't actually a big fan of daggers.
Eventually almost every game I tried to play characters within that type. I was an Assassin Cross in Ragnarok Online(swords/katars/crit) , a Combat Rogue in WoW before they removed it, later a Frost Death knight (Dual Wield) and a Demon Hunter,(momentum), a Blade in FlyFF, Sith Marauder in Swtor, the list probably goes on, even in single player games I gravitated towards anyone who could dual wield and for a little while I was also really into playing stealthy too so it worked out. Like in Oblivion and Skyrim I played the typical assassin with sneaking.
Though at some point , probably around the time I started playing Death Knight in wow, I kind of stopped enjoying the stealth portion of jobs and wanted to be more of a frontliner, and really enjoyed being able to do that.
This sort of really hit home for me recently in Baldurs Gate 3 when I tried to play Rogue but wasn't enjoying it, and enjoyed simple Two Weapon Fighting Fighter / Ranger much more.Anyway, when it came to ffxiv since I started way back at the start of the game, even though I was really excited to play the game, there weren't any jobs that really fit me either. Paladin had a sword but I didn't really want to be a tank and I'm not a huge fan of shields. I wanted to be a DPS but there really wasn't a rogue character at the time. The closest that the game had was monk since it had rear positionals and had a speed buff, but I still was kind of hoping for swords. So when Rogue released I was honestly super excited, but then it turned into Ninja and I was instantly disappointed.
Fast forward to now and we're getting Viper so that's pretty exciting for me, I've basically been waiting like 11-12 years to play the kind of character I usually play. lol
All in all I guess it evolved from stealthy rogue to fast attacking dual wielding frontline DPS, or maybe it was always that, and stealth just happened to always be shoehorned on to the dual wielder.
I'm not sure if there's a specific archetype for what I like in reference to the older ones anymore with how my playstyle changed over the years.
The only thing thats remained the same is I'm really not a fan of casting or charging attacks, probably because it's too slow for me and I like the "death of a thousand cuts" fast attacks coupled with dual wielding.
06-01-2024, 08:01 AM
LilimoLimomo
I'm right there with ya! And I think that's part of why it's taken me this long to look past the name and "genre" and really think about what activities the game asks me to do. And when I look at that, I don't see much RPG going on there, at least not in the combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
I mean, FFXIV is an MMORPG... "RPG" is literally in the genre name.
Good question! You're the expert on you, but my guess would be that over time, FF14 has mechanically changed, and with those its gameplay — and thus its genre — have shifted as well. When I started the game in ARR, the game was much different than it is now; there were things like sub-jobs and aggro management and fire materia. Without getting distracted by the tantalizing conversation of whether these changes made the game better or worse, we can see that in the past it used to be possible to actually customize the abilities and resistances you had in combat. Those kinds of choices are something I relate to RPG's, and they're now absent from the game. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be a controversial statement to at the very least say that the game is currently less of an RPG than it was previously. So it's possible that at some point, the amount of RPG juice the game was giving you fell below your minimum requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
But regardless, if the issue of me not finding my playstyle in FFXIV is because of the genre, then wouldn't my issue be that there would never have been a job that fit my style ever in FFXIV? Scholar very much did for the first 6 years of the game's lifespan.
Though broadly speaking, I'd be surprised if there weren't numerous factors at play...but this might be among them.
06-01-2024, 08:34 AM
LynxDubh
I've always been a support type player when it comes to cooperative games. And when I have to play solo games I enjoy utility type mages. Supporting my team is where I derive a lot of enjoyment, being able to tip the scales in our favor and all that. Occasionally I do love roguish and stealth types.
For MMOs, I played RDM and BLU in FFXI for their support capabilities and wide range of skills. And HW/SB AST was pretty much built for me with the variety of buffs and enfeeblements it had in its kit. I've found that I enjoy DNC now to scratch that particular itch.
In ARPGs I find myself playing things like Wide Range Sword and Shield in Monster Hunter and status based builds to debilitated the monster during hunts.
In traditional turn based and tactical rpgs, classes like Darkest Dungeon's Antiquarian, FFT's Mystic, Triangle Strategy's Tacticians, Fire Emblem's Dancers, and Unicorn Overlord's Arbalests are my favorite type of units. Classes that really set you up for success or offer great utility and defensive capabilites.
And my tendencies really come through in TTRPGs. Artificers, Druids, Wizards, and sometimes Rangers are my bread and butter classes. Treantmonk's "God Wizard" from the old 3.5 forums is closest for what I strive for. My build typically excel in battlefield control, enemy enfeeblement, ally empowerment, and utility needs. Beyond D&D I've played things ranging from a Spider in Blades in the Dark (someone who weaves a web of connections to pull favors for the gang's advantage) to the Thaumaturge from Pathfinder (an occult knowledge class that takes advantage of foe's weaknesses and esoteric knowledge).
My favorite character from my D&D 4e days was an Artificer/Swordmage Dwarf named Morrend. He gave himself and his allies large amounts of temporary hit points, buffed his hammer for melee, buffed his allies' attacks, reduced enemies chances to hit, reduced the damage allies would take from enemies, healed a bit, and made utility items for the party. He was such a fun unkillable ball of health. I had to make someone who could survive dealing with a party of nothing else but squishy casters and no other frontliners.
06-01-2024, 09:03 AM
Aravell
In RPGs that give a wide build variety, I usually go wild and try to break the game.
In FF1, my white mage was my damage dealer. I try and build characters to work differently than intended, like if a character is designated a healer, I'd try and build them offensively instead. Or if a character is designated a damage dealer, I make them a healer for fun.
In terms of FFXIV, that's why I vastly prefer the HW era. We had so much build variety back then because potencies weren't that high, so crit wasn't a must. I had a lot of fun on full skill speed ninja. Was it optimal? No. Was it fun? It was to me.
06-01-2024, 10:36 AM
Iscah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekh
Funny thing is Elden Ring's more of an rpg than FFXIV is; XIV now plays itself for the most part. Customization of stats? Nah, that's not allowed in my "perfectly balanced FFXIV, it makes the job for devs easier."
This seems like a really strange base definition of RPG to me. Are we talking the difference between western and JRPG here?Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
I'm right there with ya! And I think that's part of why it's taken me this long to look past the name and "genre" and really think about what activities the game asks me to do. And when I look at that, I don't see much RPG going on there, at least not in the combat.
[...] FF14 has mechanically changed, and with those its gameplay — and thus its genre — have shifted as well. When I started the game in ARR, the game was much different than it is now; there were things like sub-jobs and aggro management and fire materia. [...] in the past it used to be possible to actually customize the abilities and resistances you had in combat. Those kinds of choices are something I relate to RPG's, and they're now absent from the game. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be a controversial statement to at the very least say that the game is currently less of an RPG than it was previously.
As far as I've known them, RPGs generally mean "epic fantasy storyline" and the degree of customisation is irrelevant to classifying the genre. Some might go deep with a job system or other ways to edit your characters, but you don't necessarily have to engage with it to clear the game.
If you have a party and you're on a worldwide hike, it's probably an RPG.
And I was only thinking generically when I wrote that previous sentence, but now I stop to think about it, FFXIV has felt like more of an RPG over time as we started to have party members travelling with us. I think it's what made Heavensward stand out initially and it's become stronger now that we have trusts.
Edit to add: The other defining factor is EXP and levelling up. At least as I was taught it, that's the absolute line between a game being an "action RPG" (eg. Kingdom Hearts) and an "action-adventure game" (eg. Legend of Zelda) where your strength and abilities either stay constant or have to be upgraded through collectables or progress.
06-01-2024, 11:03 AM
ty_taurus
A lot of the shift in FFXIV's design direction is stuff that revolves around job design more than the design of the jobs themselves. There are examples of actions that wouldn't work with modern FFXIV, like Cleric Stance, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strikes, Goad and other TP related actions, Awareness, Sustain, etc. But the bulk of job design would still function. Like there's nothing about old Scholar that would create conflict with modern design except for Fey Light's attack speed boost which is an unwelcome buff due to how attack speed is not something most jobs want an unaccounted-for amount of. You'd probably need to add some of Scholar's newer resources to help provide it with enough resources to compete with the other healers, but if we were to bring back Miasma, Shadowflare, Miasma II, and Bane, that doesn't break Scholar.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
Good question! You're the expert on you, but my guess would be that over time, FF14 has mechanically changed, and with those its gameplay — and thus its genre — have shifted as well. When I started the game in ARR, the game was much different than it is now; there were things like sub-jobs and aggro management and fire materia. Without getting distracted by the tantalizing conversation of whether these changes made the game better or worse, we can see that in the past it used to be possible to actually customize the abilities and resistances you had in combat. Those kinds of choices are something I relate to RPG's, and they're now absent from the game. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be a controversial statement to at the very least say that the game is currently less of an RPG than it was previously. So it's possible that at some point, the amount of RPG juice the game was giving you fell below your minimum requirements.
The changes we have are not made because they must be made. They're made because someone in some seat of power wants to see the game streamlined even more than it already is.
06-01-2024, 11:36 AM
MikkoAkure
I'm the kind of person who can never commit to just one thing so I tend to play jack-of-all trades characters or classes that often come with support abilities. I wish I could be the kind of person who always plays mage classes since witches are my favorite aesthetic, but in a lot of games I end up getting frustrated when I'm squishy and get rushed by enemies, get interrupted casting by being hit or having to dodge, or where MP is a precious resource and I need to think about my spells strategically.
One thing I do love are DoTs and debuffs when they're available in a game. HSR is a lot of things, but weakness breaks are really satisfying as well as spreading DoTs everywhere so I always go around with 3 Nihility characters and a Preservation for shields. I loved the DoT aspect of old SMN gameplay but I also think that it should have gotten overhauled since it didn't fit SMN's image as much as it just fit Arcanist's and I wish we were getting Green Mage as a DoT/Debuffer to make up for it, but oh well.
In Tactics-style RPGs I'd like to think I calculate and position everyone strategically but I usually just end up going extremely direct at the enemy, strategy be damned.
06-01-2024, 12:02 PM
VentVanitas
despite my incessant ramblings about job design for XIV, I'm actually an "aesthetics first" kind of person when it comes to picking a class or playstyle in an RPG. hell, the whole reason why I picked MNK as my first job and main to begin with was because at the time I was incredibly obsessed with Hunter x Hunter, it being a technical job was merely an added bonus and brother I won't lie to you- I'm on the verge of becoming a Viper main just because I've been waiting for a DPS sword job.
because of this though, my aesthetic preferences tend to take me to options that are not typically considered "top tier" in other games, but I'm not really bothered by that.
06-01-2024, 12:17 PM
Iscah
My general approach to JRPGs would be to start it if the story sounds interesting and the art style looks nice, then stay if the characters are likeable or one of the other factors is good enough to make it worthwhile regardless.
Story is the main focus and I'll talk to all the random townspeople wherever possible to learn more about the setting, and of course any opportunities to talk with your party members and get any missable dialogue from them.
Sentimentality wins over optimisation (my Pokémon team always includes my starter and probably some things I caught on route 1) and if the game has a job system then I'll tend towards keeping characters as their "canon" jobs unless something else really suits them better.
I'm pretty terrible when it comes to being optimal in battle. Just follow the elemental rock-paper-scissors and hit the enemy as hard as you can. I don't experiment much with support skills and feel vaguely bad that I'm probably missing out on some good tactics, but it just doesn't click with me and when it's a single-player game that I'll probably play through once and move along, I don't see the point in learning complex strategies if I can just brute-force it with some explosions.
06-01-2024, 12:23 PM
ty_taurus
I'm honestly in a similar boat. I think it's really important that a job actually have good gameplay, and I want to have that aspect of choice in my gameplay, but as long as I have that, there's a lot that I can look past if the rest of the gameplay looks cool. My biggest gripe with Sage personally is that I'm stuck with a glorified bugzapper for 80% of my gameplay. I don't feel like a gundam healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by VentVanitas
despite my incessant ramblings about job design for XIV, I'm actually an "aesthetics first" kind of person when it comes to picking a class or playstyle in an RPG. hell, the whole reason why I picked MNK as my first job and main to begin with was because at the time I was incredibly obsessed with Hunter x Hunter, it being a technical job was merely an added bonus and brother I won't lie to you- I'm on the verge of becoming a Viper main just because I've been waiting for a DPS sword job.
because of this though, my aesthetic preferences tend to take me to options that are not typically considered "top tier" in other games, but I'm not really bothered by that.
06-01-2024, 01:44 PM
LilimoLimomo
Hehe, yeah, it's basically impossible to talk about genre without stumbling into semantics, because genres are these ambiguous, subjective vibes without any official definition. And so we all come to define every genre in our own way that's distinct to us, a collection ideas that in some ways overlaps what some people think, and in some ways doesn't. That's why generally speaking, I find it best to not talk about genre at all, but rather to unpack these ideas and talk about the actual traits themselves. Maybe when I say RPG's what I'm really talking about is player choice and strategic options. Maybe I'm talking about role-playing. Maybe I'm talking about epic adventures. Maybe numbers that go up? Maybe some of that, or all of that, or none of that. So it helps to specify, because that way even if we have different definitions of "RPG", we can at least talk about the things that person wants to talk about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
This seems like a really strange base definition of RPG to me.
That said, OP didn't specify, and I didn't want to interrogate them with 20 questions, so I just did my best and rolled with it. ^^
Just to be clear, I don't think there's any change that would ever need to be made to any game. Games are fake, imagined from whole cloth. They can be anything anyone wants them to be. So yeah, I agree, and I hope nothing I said suggested that I thought the game was in need of change one way or the other. All I wanted to point out was that over 10 years the game has changed and become a meaningfully different experience compared to what it once was.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
The changes we have are not made because they must be made. They're made because someone in some seat of power wants to see the game streamlined even more than it already is.
06-01-2024, 02:16 PM
Silhart
In terms of what classes I gravitate to, I love playing classes that don't conform to the classic trinity of Healer/DPS/Tank. These are usually support classes, whose contributions fall outside of healing, tanking, and damage (like mana battery classes--probably my favourite type of support class); or hybrid classes, who blur the lines between these three roles and perform two or more of these things simultaneously, all while sacrificing gameplay elements typically expected of the roles they're playing. Rogue Tank in WoW's Season of Discovery was a cool example of this - in Phase 1 they were tanks with incredible single-target damage, but they lacked proper AoE (very unusual for a tank), and they had no answer for magic damage (also very unideal for a tank). In FFXIV, I play a Scholar in PvP. This is the closest I can get to a support job - I love that their toolkit emphasises buffing and debuffing rather than plain old healing/damage.
In terms of how I approach gameplay, I take on an explorer/researcher type of role. I like to dive deep in game mechanics, figuring out hidden interactions and how I can use them to my advantage. There aren't many opportunities for this in FFXIV, but I've made some discoveries I'm proud of. I was among the first PvPers in Primal to figure out how to optimise Scholar's Biolysis spread in Frontlines. I also hypothesised that knockback effects in PvE ripple outward from the origin the same way raid buffs do (i.e. the person closest to the knockback gets hit first, hitting the raid group in order based on distance)--I never found a practical application for this, but a top MNK player in The Balance Discord told me he could use this information--he then found a way to get an extra GCD in DSR's Rewind Phase by cleverly positioning himself. Honestly the coolest sh*t I've ever seen.
With these two things in mind, one of my favourite classes in any MMORPG I've played was MapleStory's Hayato (or Samurai) from 2015-2017. At the time I played, it was a black sheep class whose gameplay revolved entirely around mobility. Honestly it was god awful - it had worse damage than a support and the entire class was held together by duct tape. But that was precisely why it was so enjoyable - its skillset was rife with weird and buggy interactions, and 99% of the fun was figuring how to apply that knowledge to optimise my EXP/hr gain. In practice it was just me figuring out different ways to zoom around the map all flashy-like, and for a time I became a minor celebrity for playing the game's 2nd/3rd most unpopular class in such an innovative way. It's sad these opportunities for unplanned gameplay are near non-existent in FFXIV's jobs. We had BLM's non-standard rotation, but now that seems to be going away. I will mourn the death of non-standard going into Dawntrail.
06-01-2024, 02:26 PM
Yuella
In games where everyone can be everything (FF5, FF7, FF8, Original FF12), I like to categorize characters into roles. I intentionally limit what each character can or cannot learn. If it's a game with 4 characters (like FF5), I'd have 1 heavy melee/tank, 1 fast melee, 1 offensive mage and 1 defensive mage. If it's 3 (FF7, FF8), I'd have a Paladin type (tanky/heavy melee but with healing), a mage type (with back up healing) and utility (mostly attacks but with buff/debuff).
06-01-2024, 05:11 PM
rawker
The very first playstyle i liked was tanking... main hand doesn't matter for as long as i wield a shield with it.
Then i got into healing/support.
Finally, i got into summoning... i will blame diablo 2 for this... i immediately loved playing summon druid.. not a fan of summoning skeletons. This was when spirit/dire wolves and grizzly cannot coexist. So i cycle depending on what i am currently facing.
That's why i was so happy when i got to play all of those in ff14 without the need to make multiple characters. But we all know what they did to healers and pets. :(
06-01-2024, 05:37 PM
Reinha
My preference seems to be either nature-themed or edgy classes, but I have played all party roles of the trinity. In WoW I liked playing hunter, druid and death knight the most. I was able to command beasts to fight for me, use poisons and traps, shapeshift into animals and summon the power of the stars and the earth to heal and deal damage. As a DK I could heal myself by doing damage, raise an army of zombies and spread plagues to my enemies.
There aren't a lot of jobs in FFXIV that fit these archetypes perfectly. A bard is not quite the same as a hunter and a dark knight can't raise the dead or leech life force from enemies (the job quest was great though). Summoners can no longer spread disease or control their pet, which are the things I liked about the job. Neither WHM or AST have a strong nature aesthetic and they give angelic/holy and fortune teller vibes instead. I'm happy Endwalker and Dawntrail have finally brought exactly the type of jobs I like to play: reaper and viper. I love reaper's dark transformation, being able to summon a void being from across the rift, healing myself with bloodbath and weakening enemies with my debuff. Viper is the hunter-style job with a poison I've been waiting for. We will also get beastmaster, although I had hoped it would be a full job.
My playstyle is pretty much following the story to uncover what happens in that fantasy world and then doing whatever I want, such as collecting rare items, accumulating wealth and making my character stand out. I enjoy being the main character or having the kind of power that is not accessible to regular people.
06-01-2024, 08:31 PM
Lyth
Gameplay concepts that I generally like to see are:
- Fast gameplay with a significantly reduced GCD
- Multihit attacks
- Swords/Greatswords
- Spellblade effects
- Time magic (especially when used to rewind time or alter action recasts)
- Teleportation
- Shapeshifting
- Weapon summoning/Armiger
- Counterattacks
- Debuff management
- Interesting movement tools
- Hitstop animations
The other job concept that I would consider playing is a melee range healer, especially one with a quarterstaff and non-MP based resource management, but I doubt they'll ever shake things up that much.
06-01-2024, 10:13 PM
ty_taurus
Right, I’m just trying to note that I don’t think the qualities I look for in a character or class, or the qualities that Scholar once had are in direct opposition to the experience modern FFXIV is generally trying to foster. The removal of those elements is not because those clash with the game flow of FFXIV, and if they were to return, or if Sage were to adopt the playstyle it was originally described as having, that that cannot work within the confines of FFXIV’s systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
Just to be clear, I don't think there's any change that would ever need to be made to any game. Games are fake, imagined from whole cloth. They can be anything anyone wants them to be. So yeah, I agree, and I hope nothing I said suggested that I thought the game was in need of change one way or the other. All I wanted to point out was that over 10 years the game has changed and become a meaningfully different experience compared to what it once was.
In other words, I don’t think me not finding what I’m looking for is because it cannot work within FFXIV’s structure, which is the what I took from your original response to be suggesting.
06-01-2024, 11:40 PM
Averax
You should try RDM or DNC, since they're the other way around. Healing in this game has left me unsatisfied for years, i love healing but the game requires you to do so little of it once people know what they're doing. I never really liked any of the DPS jobs since ARR BLM because i am a simple soul. Then i recently decided to give RDM another shot and reduced some of the bar bloat with a combat macro (Ever since they changed the aoe rotation from scatter spam i had trouble finding comfy places for everything. Also i know combat macros kind of suck but don't @ me). It felt like a breath of fresh air, i have a rotation that feels good and support capabilities that are genuinely helpful if things go wrong.
I actually enjoy playing this game again.
06-02-2024, 12:48 AM
Merrigan
As far as I'm concerned, there's no connection in terms of gameplay. I'm mainly a C-RPG player; I don't like JRPGs, and I've never played a single-player FF. In C-RPGs, I'm almost always a dps mage, as this class generally gives me a deeper understanding of the lore; in FFXIV, I'm a melee / healer and I hate the BLM for its turret aspect.
The only thing that could represent a similarity is the attachment to the details of the lore. In C-RPGs, the dialogue is usually leafy and you can spend hours learning about the past of Trogne, the loyal and good ogre. In FFXIV, I find this aspect in their idea of making NPC dialogue evolve as the story progresses. It's an extremely stupid detail, and it seems ridiculous: but that's why I stayed with the game.
When I tried FFXIV for the first time, I hated it: it had all the reasons I usually avoid typical jrpg games (cute things, dialogue that's certainly polished but cheesy, characters that are too polished, both physically and psychologically). And then, one of these days, I spoke to an NPC, a reflex I hadn't had because I'd just come from wow and wow NPC dialogue is bland and rare. In my head these were details I could expect from a c-rpg, certainly not from an mmo. And then, surprise! He had a line of dialogue that referred to my quest.
‘Well? That's nice, quite rare in MMORPGs, it must take a lot of extra work on this type of game’. So I wanted to know if all the NPCs were like that; I spoke to all those in the zone, then I spoke to those in other zones. In fact I went round in circles for a long, long time talking to all the NPCs in each zone; then I disconnected and made a new character, this time on the assumption that the game was generous with these details. And it's this stupid little trick of feeding players like me, who go poking around looking for consistency in the lore, that made me stay. Despite my lack of appetite for JRPGs, despite certain things that still annoy me sometimes (the cute stuff). Over time, I've grown attached to the game and learned to appreciate other aspects, of course.
There you go. A bit off-topic, no doubt, given that the initial post was more about gameplay.
06-02-2024, 12:52 AM
Jkap_Goat
my favorite RPG elements is FFXI
my favorite job and my main is Dancer which is like a DD/Support Healer/Debuffer
Dancer can Debuffer enemies with it steps: Box Step( Lower defense of enemy) Quickstep (Lowers evasion) Feather step ( Lower target critical hit rate) and Stutter Step( lowers target magic resistance)
it can heal using TP for curing waltz ( curing waltz 1,2,3,4,5)
AoE healing ( Devine Waltz 1,2)
Sambas gives a buff to the dancers party whatever the Dancer is attacking
Drain samba, Haste Samba and Aspir Samba
Ruaumoko does amazing job guides for FFXI, here is the dancer guide
I love FFXI and I love the job system on there <3 I think XI does a better job at job identity than xiv
so would I call FFXIV a RPG. hell no, not even close, it's more of a button smashing 1,2,3 combo and combat system is very boring
06-02-2024, 01:09 AM
ty_taurus
I played Dancer a bunch, but it fails to achieve the core aspect I’m looking for. It doesn’t scratch the itch that drove me to play FFXIV. It made me realize that I really only enjoyed FFXIV’s combat system because of Scholar. Without that older aspect of choice and decision-making, I grow bored too quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
You should try RDM or DNC, since they're the other way around. Healing in this game has left me unsatisfied for years, i love healing but the game requires you to do so little of it once people know what they're doing. I never really liked any of the DPS jobs since ARR BLM because i am a simple soul. Then i recently decided to give RDM another shot and reduced some of the bar bloat with a combat macro (Ever since they changed the aoe rotation from scatter spam i had trouble finding comfy places for everything. Also i know combat macros kind of suck but don't @ me). It felt like a breath of fresh air, i have a rotation that feels good and support capabilities that are genuinely helpful if things go wrong.
I actually enjoy playing this game again.
06-02-2024, 02:07 AM
EZGIL
I was a Arazu specialist. That ship was death incarnate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraden
Mao only ever played MMOs. In each MMO Mao played Mao was always big on DPS with one exception....In Eves Online Mao flew Amarr Curse Cruiser and Mao job in combats was to use Nosferatu to suck enemy ships dry of energy so thems couldn't fight backs. Then Mao Corp-mates would come in and shoot enemy ships.
06-02-2024, 02:30 AM
Mistress_Irika
I don't really have a RPG style. I've wasted my time putting in 1 to 2 years of turn base games like Wartunes and War of Dragons that didn't have many options to begin time. If anything, I'm more of a MOBA player. If I have to compare my style when it comes to final fantasy I'm using MOBA games. The sad part is MOBAs are mainly pvp related while RPGs are either single player or pve related in multiplayer. I'll go ahead and answer the question though.
My playstyle is mainly a supportive playstyle. I will not deviate from this whatsoever. I'm a support first, tank second, and everything else that comes with it. If I have to play a dps I make sure that it has some sort of support skill listed in there.
For League, my main characters are Nami, Soraka, Janna, Lulu and Sona. I do also try Lux, Karma, Orianna, and Seraphine. For tanks, it's Alistar, Leona, Braun, and Rahan. My prefer tank is the old taric since I could tank and heal at the same time.
For Mobile Legends I main Carmella and Lolita (tanks). I do also play Angela and Mathilda. I'm currently learning Floryn.
Smite? Mainly Athena and Aphrodite. Paragon? Narbash, Dekker, and Muriel.
You get the point.I didn't get into healing right away when I started XIV during the SB era. Along the way of learning I found out that healers were an essential role and that dying meant that everyone had to start over. I started out as a WAR, because my family who got into it then needed a tank. However, I quickly fell in love with SMN because of Carby. SMN could have been better in SB. However, it got me through. It was because of how they was back then that I started learning SCH. It didn't take my healer anxiety away. However, I felt more comfortable using that healer when running roulettes. When it came to pvp though I main RDM and PLD simply because they can heal. I can sit back and hold my burst until my healers got comfortable before going in to do my job. It didn't stop the premades from running over us. However, I was able to stall for 2 straight minutes when it came to the beginning of the match. That was then. Now, I rather play DNC. I'll have that sitting as a secondary for any content I decide to do. Again, it's thanks to the healing and defensive utilities that they have. I'm just attracted to supportive classes.
06-02-2024, 04:11 AM
AnotherPerson
I like to play support, but usually leaning more heavily into a trickster-like playstyle via aggressive support. In many RPGs, it's usually the stealthy class or a class that allows setting up traps that can work with this playstyle. Creating various ways to open up a unique advantage via Crowd control, map control to create a safety zone for my party, etc. Support via controlling enemy actions or outright removing threats with some strong burst offensive capability. I like to call the playstyle something akin to a mobile tower defense. My secondary playstyle is focusing on recovery and healing, keeping the party working like a well-oiled machine.
If I were to use League champions as reference, it would be Shaco (Multiple box traps to cause fear and damage in surrounding area from enemies stepping in, clones to bait and create openings, distraction, invisibility), Teemo (Planting mushroom traps to cause AoE DoTs and slow for the team to maneuver around, darting with increased movement speed, going into stealth), Nami (CC bubble to stop an enemy, augmenting attacks to apply slowing movement speed, healing that bounces between allies and enemies granting movement speed to allies receiving healing and damaging enemies), and Lulu (effective transform like WHM miracle of nature, Attack speed and movement speed buffs, slows enemies).
Unfortunately, there isn't really an equivalent playstyle for this in FFXIV on the PvE side because aggro is a non-issue with the way tanks are designed, boss constantly auto-repositions, fights are heavily scripted, and slowing enemies' movement speed to buy time isn't really a thing here due to both simplistic AI and a complete reduction of crowd control effects in encounters. Healers in this game doesn't really have any notable differences for a support-oriented playstyle either other than "I heal" or "I shield", so it's hard for this playstyle to exist here. All 4 healers largely do the same thing and don't have particularly unique utilities that change the way you tackle an encounter outside of SCH's expedient (but the cooldown is too long to really provide much difference to make that a playstyle).
The closest resemblance to this playstyle is PvP Ninja, PvP Scholar, PvP Astrologian, PvP White Mage, and PvP Sage, but only because PvP doesn't have hard aggro + scripted encounters. The toolkit is more distinctly unique and filled with shorter cooldowns, allows for crowd control abilities to exist, and allows distance to matter in both fights and for running away.
Diversion and distractions to buy time isn't really a thing with the way PvE is designed here.
06-02-2024, 09:50 AM
hynaku
I love old Final Fantasy turn based rpg game styles.
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